Lima climate change summit: 'weak' UN deal could let countries dodge green pledges
Agreement reached to save Lima talks from collapse but critics say
watered-down deal is too weak
UN climate change talks have been saved from the brink of collapse by a “weak”
agreement that could let countries dodge setting clear targets to cut their
emissions.
Negotiations in the Peruvian capital Lima dragged on to the early hours of
Sunday morning – a day and a half after their scheduled close - amid deep
disagreements between rich and poor nations over the steps they should take
to tackle global warming.
The divisions had threatened to derail the talks altogether but eventually
resulted in a “bare minimum” deal, thrashed out by delegates who had barely
slept in three days, that left many key disputes unresolved.
The Lima deal is intended to make countries issue national pledges next year
outlining the action they will take to cut their carbon emissions. The
pledges are then supposed to form the basis of a binding deal at talks in
Paris next year to avert dangerous levels of global warming.
Rich nations including the USA and EU members had pushed for all countries to
be bound by strict rules to ensure that their pledges gave clear and
measurable data – akin to the UK’s Climate Change Act.
But after objections from developing nations the eventual text was watered
down so the rules are voluntary. “It’s totally up to you now whether you
provide that information or not,” Alden Meyer of the Union of Concerned
Scientists said. “It’s the bare minimum we needed to come out of here with;
it’s not what we hoped for.”
Samantha Smith, of environmental group WWF, said the rules had gone from "weak
to weaker to weakest".
Ed Davey, the energy and climate change secretary, insisted he was “completely
relaxed” about the watered down rules, claiming that countries would have to
provide the information anyway due to “political pressure”. He denied that
the UK would be left going green further and faster than its neighbours,
arguing some other European nations had already gone further.
But even if detailed pledges are forthcoming Mr Davey acknowledged they would
fall well short of the level necessary to avert dangerous levels of global
warming, of 2C above pre-industrial levels.
There would be “a gap between what the world is offering and what the science
says we need to do,” he said.
Experts warned that the scale of divisions laid bare at Lima did not bode well
for the chances of securing a strong and binding global deal in Paris.
Jonathan Grant, sustainability and climate change director at PwC, said the
“trench warfare” mentality between different factions seen in Lima could
result in the talks “falling off the cliff in Paris”.
A long list of fundamental issues remain to be resolved over the next year,
including the legal status of any Paris deal and demands from poor countries
for more cash from rich nations to help them to help poorer nations cut
emissions and cope with the effects of global warming.
Rich countries have previously promised a vague goal of “mobilising” $100bn of
“climate finance” a year for poor nations by 2020 but the concepts are
ill-defined, leading to wrangling as poor countries say their wealthier
neighbours have not done enough.
“The biggest thing that is really, really unresolved is the money,” said
Michael Jacobs, visiting professor at the LSE’s Grantham climate research
institute.
“The developed countries have got to find some way of showing they can provide
the $100bn they promised, and at least some financial contribution
post-2020. This is hard: this is a core demand of the developing countries
but the hardest things for the developed countries, both because they don’t
feel they have got so much money but also because it’s hard to budget
ahead.”
Mr Davey admitted that the talks in Paris were likely to be "even more
difficult than Lima" but said he remained confident of a deal. “I’m very
excited by the prospects for a deal next year. It will be tough but for the
first time, I think ever, the world can contemplate a global deal applicable
to all.”
-
"“The developed countries have got to find some way of showing they can provide
the $100bn they promised"...
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whats new.. the climate agenda in 22 years has moved from Rio to Lima
. Then as now all agreements will not be becuase every one will be
subject to the get out clause "unless not in the national interest". So
just like Agenda 21 and the 27 objectives of the 1992 'agreement'
exactly none will be achieved.. it's a joke
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What a fantastic laugh, 7000 tax payer funded troughers take a junket
to Lima and reach a please yourself agreement. The whole Climate change
circus is unravelling fast now. If the UK doesn't scrap its Climate
Change Act, get rid of the hapless Davey and stop the ruinous dash for
renewals we should want to know why. Surely the warmist trolls who
infest this site should be too ashamed to show their faces. You've lost
guys. There should be people sent to prison for this attempted scam.
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the "climate talks" are analagous to "climate change"...for "climate
change", there is a [wealth-distributing/controlling] policy seeking an
[invented, scientific] rationale..........and for the "talks", there is
a confab seeking a purpose...which they are frantic to devise
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The good news is Ed Davey will be gone before the Paris meeting Dec 2015, the bad news is someone similar will replace him.
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Pretty much exactly as Booker foretold.
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Right, as far as I understand it, the purpose of this 9,000-person
jamboree was to use fake science to get the world's most indebted
countries to hand over $100bn a year to the rulers of the world's most
corrupt countries in order to support the offshore tax-avoidance
industry in the Cayman Islands. Seems reasonable to me.
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Meanwhile over at the Grauniad the commenters are wetting themselves
with joy over this 'agreement'. There is much excited talk of 'limiting
temperature rise to 2 degrees' and other such absurd inanities. If you
are interested in watching the mentally retarded write comments to each
other then pop over for a look. Beware though, it might make you want to
vomit.
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don't need to go to the grauniad, anymore...can read all about it right here at the DT...
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Bet Davey's hand went up first for committing to the $100 billion,
and very probably the only one. The rest were sniggering behind their
hands, especially the Third World 'beneficiaries'.
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Davey is quick to spend other people's money, but when it comes to
spending his own he chooses a small Energy company to supply gas and
electricity to his properties because they don't charge Green levies.
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The trouble is that the "other people's" money is usuallu some of yours and mine.
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And their bankers in the Cayman Islands
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If science is right about climate change, I expect what is left of
mankind in a 100 years to collectively piss on the graves of today's
leaders.
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Which science? Or whose science?
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I guess, for you, the fact that 2014 is the hottest year ever recorded,
or the fact that fourteen out of the fifteen warmest years on record
occured in the last 15 years, is hippie's science.
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You mention two 'facts' - both of which are no such thing. Anyway, 2014 hasn't actually ended yet.
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‘The year 2014 is on track to be one of the hottest, if not the
hottest, on record, according to preliminary estimates by the World
Meteorological Organization (WMO)”
“The provisional information
for 2014 means that fourteen of the fifteen warmest years on record have
all occurred in the 21st century” said WMO Secretary-General Michel
Jarraud"
Anything else?
Of course, you can also name WMO as hippie's organisation and be done with that.
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So after thousands of people fly thousands of miles for
meetings/talks about a meeting next year, the outcome is nothing of
significance, what was the point? apart for a holiday in Peru of course.
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The company hiring out diesel generators to supply electricity to the delegates did very well out of it.
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And yet another in Gay Paree.
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Oh what total nonsense, is there any logic or intelligence left,
surely it is obvious to even the most hopeless cretin that the whole
idea that human influence on climate (sorry, global warming) is anything
but miniscule, let alone the possibility that we could somehow hope to
control it. If CO2, the global concentrations of which are measured in
parts per million and human contributions are only 5% at most, is
supposed to be responsible, why have temperatures remained static this
century when emissions have soared? Think negative feedbacks, all other
physical phenomena have them. QED!
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Though we could and should control population levels.
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Best way to do that is let the developing world develop. When there's
plenty of food on the table and time to think and plan, there are a lot
of problems. When there's no food on the table, there is only one!
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Good points.
But it's not about the climate, and it never was.
It's about redistribution of wealth using the UN as a supra-national
taxing authority.
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Well at least they had a good tax payers funded holiday. No wonder
our once great nation has been reduced to a poor member of the EU? VOTE
UKIP
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And they were able to damage a world heritage site too!
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There is less champagne in the world now than when the meeting/talks
started two weeks ago, and as you say 12000 + people have had a nice
holiday in Peru, I do hope they got some sightseeing in between all
their hard work.
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Personally, I hope they got food poisoning!
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DECC should be dismantled forthwith, it serves no purpose. Global
Warming / Cooling is a non problem invented by the Green Anticapitalist
Marxist mob. Red Davey is doing the Greens work, dump him now Dave and
you will win the next election.
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DECC certainly should be dismantled, quite possibly the most useless Gov't dep't ever in the history of Gov't!
I
have, unfortunately been there in a professional capacity, it is quite
likely I was the only professional in a 100m radius!! The hottest day of
the year, in a non ventilated building, they had the air con off to
save energy!!!
Absolute fcukwits, one and all, especially that uniquely untalented moron who "leads" it, Davey!!!!!
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But he's done exactly what the ('carefully selected') science says -
and has a foot in the Cabinet plus all the perks, for agreeing!
Governments love it - all those lovely taxes for windmills - and hand-outs to 'poorer' nations.
'Scientists' love it - all those lovely consultancy fees for publishing learned (!) treatise on Global Warming.
Davey
is a typical hanger-on, seeing nothing but holidays at taxpayers
expense and a future in either the EU or a 'Climate Control' body when
he loses his seat next year.
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We're with you..stay calm, you might increase CO emissions if you get
too hot and bothered ! Davey doesn't like that sort of thing you know.
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Meanwhile...in the world of science...
Evidence continues to
emerge that the CMIP5 models relied on by the IPCC are utter trash, and
that ECS is likely to be well below the lower end of the range cited by
the IPCC in AR5, which is 1.5 deg C per 2xCO2.
The jig is
up...governments are getting wise to the scientific charade. Developing
countries will not hobble themselves. Developed countries will not
hand over the money. The tide has already turned. Lima is no surprise.
Paris will be worse for the True Believer.
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Unfortunately we are likely to be the only country to spend billions
on trying to achieve some arbitrary figures while everyone else laughs
at us!!!
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I SINCERELY Hope that Davy is long gone well before Dec 2015!!!
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What a marvelous deal we ended with in Lima. Ed Davey did a splendid
job and I do hope he is around for the Paris meeting next year. With
him in charge of DECC, the UK has a safe pair of hands steering this
critically important task on behalf of the world. With the progress we
have made, Ed has ensured that we are not exposed to the volatility of
fossil fuel prices - with our increasing dependence on renewables we
will have consistently very high energy prices going forward. It's that
certainty that customers value. They would rather pay a lot more
knowing that their bills will be much higher than they otherwise might
be - it allows them to plan their expenditures.
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I shall, initially, assume you were being ironic, however, just in case:-
"What a marvelous deal we ended with in Lima" Bolleaux! Another £200,000,000,000 wasted!
"Ed Davey did a splendid job" Utterly impossible, this cretin couldn't spell job, splendid or otherwise!
"I
do hope he is around for the Paris meeting next year". I hope the exact
opposite and hope that the people of Kingston and Surbiton have learned
their lesson for voting this pillock in last time!
"With him in charge of DECC" We have no hope!
"very high energy prices going forward Guaranteed!
If you were being ironic, then I aplologise, if you weren't, then you must be Ed Davey!!!!!
Always remember, Green Energy = Idiocy, every time!!!
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The certainty of high prices is certainly nice.
As a bonus, it comes with matching uncertainty of supply availability.
The best of all possible worlds.
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Dear Daily Telegraph (and all),
May I suggest that henceforth you
refer to the countries being asked for more free handouts by the more
accurate term "indebted" rather than the politically loaded term "rich".
Anyone can give the temporary appearance of being wealthy by simply
borrowing money - but it dosn't make you any richer to have $16Trillion
or £1.5 Trillion in debt that you have to service.
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But.... They set a new record for carbon footprint for a boondoggle
global warming/global cooling/climate change summit. 29,000 tonnes of
more carbon in the air.
Just so you know though I have a pledge of my own.
I pledge to never attend one of these conferences and help the alarmists destroy the planet (their thought).
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Any world leaders that push this agenda on their own country will
suffer the same crushing defeat as the former leaders of Australia when
they attempted to shove "climate change" policy down the throats of
working Australians. What a typical UN blowhard agreement. Nothing will
happen, nothing will change, and the entire thing will have been an
impressive waste of time alongside the giant carbon footprint this
summit left on the planet. Then, all of these 'brilliant' people will
fly home on their private jets and take a nice swim in their heated
swimming pools.
It's a joke. This changes nothing. It's either get
creative with unique, scientific solutions or write 'climate change'
legislation off completely. But summit after summit, meeting after
meeting, agreement after agreement.......... Nothing changes. Nothing
happens. Doing the same thing over and over and over solves absolutely
nothing. But I guess it makes these folks feel better about themselves.
Good for them.
Personally, I'll keep recycling and driving my
hybrid automobile. I can't stop exhaling carbon dioxide, so I guess I'm
doing everything I am able to do. I'll try to live what I believe
instead of attempting to shove it down everyone else's throat in an
attempt to feel pious and happy about myself.
The UN is so incredibly worthless.
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Sadly we do not have any red-blooded Australians here to chuck Ed
Davey out, and as for two faced, flip-flop Cameron....words fail me (
and I used to be a Conservative)
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You are correct in your cynicism (I have been to many UN meetings:
The intention is good, the technical knowledge is sound - but if you
think politics is pathetic in Britain - imagine trying to get an
agreement from every country on Earth - all with their own different
agenda and selfish objectives. - I gave up in despair after a few years
and transferred by work to national and European level - which is bad
enough).
Nevertheless. It is sadly, the only show in town.
We have
no other choice but for the UN to keep slogging away at it as the
alternative is to pretty much accept climate change likely to kill
billions and destroy societies. While they are doing that , painfully
slowly, we all need to do what we can at the personal (as you are
doing), national and regional (without succumbing to simply naively
handing over competitiveness instead) levels too.
-
The climate change/global warming crowd love to scare us with their
doomsday hyperbole but describing billions of deaths and societies
destroyed is barmy even by their standards.It's just this sort of
nonsense that has made so many people sceptical on this whole issue.
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Hopefully we will continue to develop more fuel and energy
efficiency. When people can save money by buying less fuel or by being
able to purchase or even create their own renewables, their pocketbook
will speak volumes to them. The whole reason I bought a hybrid car
initially was because I hate buying gas. In all honesty, motive doesn't
matter, as long as we head the right direction. My neighbor installed
solar panels to cut his electricity costs. Plus he gets a tax break for
having them. People respond when it hits them personally. Lots of
technological advances are on their way. Let's hope they help us make
major changes without involving politics.
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I completely agree.
What's not to like about free energy and no pollution?
Leading
a population with incentive is always preferable to driving it with
legislation - which is rarely a good fit for everyone and tends to
foster resentment of the cause in general.
We need technologies that are BETTER for people - not diktats that we must return to the cave.
So
LEDs instead of CFLs. Solar that grants cheaper bills etc. etc. And If
we are to achieve anything before catastrophic harm is done that will
necessitate kickstarting technologies with appropriate development
funding.
Health & Science
Climate deal eked out in Lima advances talks as diplomats eye global pact next year
Peruvian
Minister of Environment Manuel Pulgar-Vidal, left, the president of
COP20, shakes hands with the Peruvian foreign affairs minister, Gonzalo
Gutierrez , after the approval of the The Lima Call for Climate Action,
during the plenary session of the 20th UN Climate Change Conference
COP20 held in Lima, Peru. (Cop20 Handout/EPA)
Efforts
to forge a comprehensive climate treaty advanced early Sunday as
diplomats eked out an agreement that commits all countries to addressing
the causes of climate change but leaves many of the particulars
unresolved.
Negotiators who
gathered in Lima, Peru,
announced an accord at 1 :30 a.m., after 11 days of often rancorous
talks that ran more than 24 hours into overtime. The agreement builds on
recent momentum for a global treaty, to be finalized in Paris late next
year. And in a key breakthrough, it requires action from developing
countries as well as the industrialized world.
“The road to Paris has begun in Lima,”
Felipe Calderón,
former president of Mexico and chairman of the Global Commission on the
Economy and Climate, said after the agreement was gaveled through in a
large tent packed with weary delegates. “There is still considerable
work to be done. But I am encouraged that countries, all around the
world, are beginning to see that it is in their economic interest to
take action now.”The
gains were modest — the requirements to be borne by individual
countries were repeatedly watered down to ensure buy-in from more than
190 countries, ranging from established industrial powers of the West,
to rising powerhouses such as China and India, to tiny island states
such as Samoa and Nauru.
Under the agreement, each country will
have to submit early next year a detailed plan for addressing carbon
emissions. But a series of compromises Friday and Saturday stripped away
specific requirements for cutting pollution and left no provisions for
outside verification to ensure that the plans are carried out. The
softened language was denounced by environmental groups as unacceptably
weak.
“The foot-dragging in Lima is out of step with
the urgent signs of climate change that are already apparent,” said
Nathaniel Keohane, vice president for international climate at the
Environment Defense Fund.
Western participants in the talks and
independent experts said the compromises were necessary to keep the
negotiations on track for next year in Paris. They noted that major
industrial countries that produce most of the world’s greenhouse gases —
including the United States, the nations of the European Union and
China — already have committed to substantial curbs on greenhouse gas
emissions, cuts that will be probably be incorporated into any pact that
is approved in Paris.
The Obama administration
promised last month
to reduce U.S. emissions by 2025 to a level 26 to 28 percent below where they were in 2005.
“The
major virtue of this agreement is that it applies to both developed and
developing nations, outlines the commitment terms and keeps everyone at
the table,” said Paul Bledsoe, a former Clinton White House climate
adviser. “But the pressure ahead of Paris will be profound because all
the thorniest issues have been left unresolved.”
The Lima
meeting, which began on Dec. 1, offered an opportunity to settle
technical issues underpinning next year’s global agreement, including
how costs and obligations will be divided among poorer and wealthier
countries. In the past, developing countries, including major emitters
such as China and India, were exempted from mandatory cuts in
greenhouse-gas pollution.The
talks went into overtime Saturday as delegations clashed over demands
by developing countries for compensation from industrialized countries
for damage from climate change as well as demands for more financial
assistance to pay for a transition to climate-friendly energy sources.
The slow progress prompted U.S. Secretary of State John F. Kerry to fly to Lima on Thursday to urge negotiators along.
“If
we continue down the same path we are on today, the world as we know it
will profoundly change, and it will change dramatically for the worse,”
Kerry told a gathering of diplomats at the
talks, which were sponsored by the United Nations.
Pope Francis also intervened, warning diplomats in a statement that “the time to find global solutions is running out.”
“We
can find solutions only if we act together and agree,” the pontiff said
in a message sent to environment minister Manuel Pulgar Vidal, the
Peruvian official chairing the talks.
Source: Washington Post
...and I am Sid Harth